Culture Wars and Politicizing of Theatre and the Arts . . .
Back in Shakespeare's day, female character roles on stage were acted by either boys or men.
Women were simply not permitted to act on stage simply as it was a social norm to exclude them. There weren't any actual rules against women being on stage. It was more like the reasons why men wore britches (except for the Scots) and why women wore skirts.
Fast forward to the 20th century and we find "Indian" roles in movies often played by white people such as Burt Landcaster, Elizabeth Taylor and Jeff Chandler.
There were some Native American actors, such as Jay Silverheels as Tonto, but there weren't many established actors who were non-white.
Back then, oftentimes the roles of black and other non-whites people were also played by white actors.
Laurence Olivier played Othello and even John Wayne took on the role of a Mongol in "The Conqueror."
Marlon Brando played a Japanese character in "The Teahouse of the August Moon."
I won't argue one way or another whether racism was involved though I doubt that it was what we may call conscious or deliberate racism. We should not look at the issue through a 21st century lens.
Over time, the business evolved and eventually we have Native Americans often playing Native American roles and we have black and brown people appearing as . . . black or brown people. It's rare now for a white person to play any other role but a role calling for white person.
It seems now that we have come so far, we may be slipping into an age of ideocracy . . .
The cast of "Alexander Hamilton" is nearly all black. Is this supposed to be some form of artistic reparation?
I've read of the reasons, and I just don't buy them.
But "Hamilton" is not what kicked off the is thread.
This is today's trigger:
If Oddyssey fails, it will have earned the failure.
This type of thing just goes too far.
I can't wait to see Jesus played by a Black Jewish transvestite.
Has it been done already? Have I missed it?
I’m reminded of a performance of the Charlie and the chocolate factory musical a few back.
Charlie’s dad was absent, and his single mum signed her words. Charlie was now a girl, a black girl. Her deaf mother was white, as were all four grandparents.
Fascinating topic though. Does a black 007 matter? Does a lesbian Dr Who matter? Does art always have to reflect reality or should art guide society? What’s art’s relationship with history?
All good points . . .
I think there should be freedom of interpretation in art, but it ought not depend upon tax money to fund it.
I have not seen Hamilton and I do know some have seen it many times and think it wonderful.
I'm not for censorship.
Where I generally draw a line is where it may distort history or present history in a deliberately politicized and purposefully inaccurate manner.
One instance that you raise . . . unrelated to history . . .
A black female 007 is not so much an issue so why not call the character 008 instead?
Should the James Bond series be consistent with how Ian Flemming wrote the series or is it OK to confuse James Bond with Humpty-Dumpty?
In the Devils brigade, the token french canadian is played by a franco algerian.
Unacceptable
The everyone black and only two white characters due to their prominence works well, enhances it a bit. The motivation may be a bit annoying but they made it work, and it’s a great show. It’s fun to play appropriate songs to poke at Silky as it certainly gets royal arrogance right.
The multicultural elf thing for rings of power in the other hand sucks balls.
Horses for courses . . .
Had I gone to see Hamilton, I'd probably have enjoyed it.
Maureen loves musicals . . . and there are times I'd rather see Stoppard or Beckett or some serious drama.
But if I am to be honest, I've never gone to a musical that I did not enjoy. Not one.
It just bothers me to think that there may be young people who think Hamilton presents anything like an accurate picture of the times of our founding fathers.
Am I being silly?
Imagine a Zulu remake but all the Brits are black/Indians and the Zulus are white.
Here comes Ionescu again!
@Jamsaidin@JamHorses for courses . . .
Had I gone to see Hamilton, I'd probably have enjoyed it.
Maureen loves musicals . . . and there are times I'd rather see Stoppard or Beckett or some serious drama.
But if I am to be honest, I've never gone to a musical that I did not enjoy. Not one.
It just bothers me to think that there may be young people who think Hamilton presents anything like an accurate picture of the times of our founding fathers.
Am I being silly?
Pretty sure everyone knows Hamilton was white.
Personally I don't see the issues with taking liberties with a fantasy work like Odyssey tbh. The critic about language is a bit over the top. Should they speak in ancient greek?
But a female James Bond is retarded.
Acting is when you play a character that isn't you. In that context, it really doesn't matter who they are playing, what only matters is the desired end-performance.
The end-performance could have many different intentions. Typically, it's to be convincing and move a story along. But in some cases it's to be ironic or apply social commentary. In other cases though, it's to push a stereotype and punch down, and that's typically where people start to have a problem. Especially with older films and the way certain minorities were portrayed.
Generally speaking, now a days there are so many actors available from all facets of life that it would have to be pretty difficult not to be able to find someone who fits a role. This is actually a conversation I've been having the last few weeks for a project I am on. Ideally speaking we want talent whose backgrounds and ethnicity fit the role, but keeping the recordings in a single city would keep costs down, so we have to remain open to talent who can be convincing regardless of background or ethnicity.
@Kilemallsaidin@Kilemall@Lob12 said in Culture Wars and Politicizing of Theatre and the Arts . . .:
That would be fun. Although really you should make the Zulus French.
And we call it Waterloo
waterzulu
@Kilemallsaidin@Kilemall@Lob12 said in Culture Wars and Politicizing of Theatre and the Arts . . .:
That would be fun. Although really you should make the Zulus French.
But the Zulus fought bravely. I’m all for theatre and drama but you can’t stretch reality that much
Lazy. Even I thought of that one lol
@Jamsaidin@JamHorses for courses . . .
Had I gone to see Hamilton, I'd probably have enjoyed it.
Maureen loves musicals . . . and there are times I'd rather see Stoppard or Beckett or some serious drama.
But if I am to be honest, I've never gone to a musical that I did not enjoy. Not one.
It just bothers me to think that there may be young people who think Hamilton presents anything like an accurate picture of the times of our founding fathers.
Am I being silly?
Frankly I’m much more worked up over the massive fuckup that is the Battle of the Bulge movie or the latest Pearl Harbor one, or the JFK Stone movie as fact.
I don’t know if I could take watching the John Wayne Dark Command movie, where Quantrill is stopped, barely could take the movie where Quantrill was a hero.
Those work me up much more then skin color questions.
Presentation matters too- Inglorious Basterds is a wink and a nod as is Kelly’s Heroes so those are entertaining and clearly not trying to tell history. Fables vs tribal history.
@Lob12saidin@Lob12@Kilemall said in Culture Wars and Politicizing of Theatre and the Arts . . .:
And we call it Waterloo
A movie about a loo without water would certainly stink!
@Kilemallsaidin@Kilemall@Jam said in Culture Wars and Politicizing of Theatre and the Arts . . .:
Frankly I’m much more worked up over the massive fuckup that is the Battle of the Bulge movie or the latest Pearl Harbor one, or the JFK Stone movie as fact.
I don’t know if I could take watching the John Wayne Dark Command movie, where Quantrill is stopped, barely could take the movie where Quantrill was a hero.
Those work me up much more then skin color questions.
Presentation matters too- Inglorious Basterds is a wink and a nod as is Kelly’s Heroes so those are entertaining and clearly not trying to tell history. Fables vs tribal history.
That Ridley Scott Napoleon movie was garbage, especially the Austerlitz scene.
I don't care about the origin of the actors, but I would love to see a movie about the Roman empire where they don't speak with a British accent, but sound like New York mafioso instead.